Fire Doesn’t Melt Steel: Celebrity Moron Edition
We have another celebrity coming out party. Yet another science major thinks that fire cannot melt steel. I haven't blogged about these 9/11 truther morons in forever, because the target is just too easy. But celebrities get more press, so it's fun to laugh at their buffoonery. Here is a quote from the story:
Miss O'Donnell claims the collapse of the World Trade Center towers was "the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel — it is physically impossible."
Samurai Sword makers, Blacksmiths, Steel smelters, and Steel recyclers all boggle at this amazing concept of fire not being able to melt steel. Where do these people think steel comes from? It's melted from a mixture of metals. With fire. And shaped. With fire. To make things out of it. And when it's not needed; it's torn down and melted, with fire, and recycled to make other things. It's a very stunning concept, really.
The Steel Growers Farm Association is pleased to know that they have another customer though!
The customer base for growing steel girders from seeds and letting them grow naturally with sunlight and love; then cutting them down with hammer and chisels just isn't the business it was eons ago; before, you know, fire was discovered. Accursed blacksmiths! So support your local pre-caveman farmers, generating steel like it was meant to be generated! On farms, from seeds. With love.
March 7th, 2008 - 16:29
Excellent in all respects! Cheers
April 18th, 2008 - 11:01
It is easy to bash these people bacause of the simplicity and nievity of their all encompassing statements ‘ Fire does not melt steel’
However, thats not what was meant. If you take your emotion and your willingness to battle the retards then wise up to the fact.
Jet fuel has a flash point temperature, the flash point temperature ‘the highest acheivable temperature ‘ was not hot enough and could not sustain enough specific heat capacity to melt or buckle tempered steel.
That was the proper way of saying it.
I think most people know that Fire melts steel, however, i give you this example. Make a fire in your garden, a campfire and go cook some marshmallows over it and sing a few camp songs. Now take a big metal poker and leave it in the fire until the fire goes out.
Will the metal bar have melted ? will it have weakened, ? will anything hve happened to the metal bar ? No, NO, NO.
The size of the metal is obviously as important to the heat capacity of the fuel to melt it. This is why we have a thing called a ‘furnace’ for your information, a Furnace is not a fire.
A furnace has to be constantly heated to achieve a superheat. That is a heat that is above the normal capacity of an agent to produce heat.
Jet fuel burns, forgive me for not having the absolute numbers, but jet fuel burns at 600 degree’s once it is burnt it is gone. i.e their is no furnace effect, Tempered steel in the World trade centre was built to stand 2000 degree’s of temperature before it buckled.
Now, the conspiracy theoristes take this fact and use it.
You on the other hand are equally as niave to belitte them with your retred point of view.
Just how does Jet fuel that has no furnace to capture heat, has limited supply of fuel, i.e the tanks of jet fuel, burns at 600 degree’s actually melt steel that only melts at 2000 degree’s ?
Okay, of course you cant explain it. That however does not mean that the terrorists or federal government blew it up with c4 charges either.
What is more of a logical explanation, is simply this. The steel on the World trade centre was not as tough as we thought it should be.
Our ability to calculate stress and loads is getting better. Things work on paper, ask why an underground tunnel fell in Boston, or a bridge fell in Minnesota.
Maybe the steel in the trade centre was cheap substandard steel ran my mafia contractors skimming of the top.
Those are the more obvious explanations. However, it is not becoming to belittle others when yourself resort to moronic point the finger and laugh tactics, when you yourself cannot explain the simple argument they are trying to make.
Yes Fire melts steel, but bear in mind it will only melt it when it is furnaced, when the fire is hot enough and the steel reaches its melt point !
Those things should not have happened with a jet plane crash.
August 15th, 2008 - 05:09
Tony said a bunch of stuff that he really doesn’t know about.
Steel (a misnomer, as “steel” can be any of a bunch of different metal alloys) that is used in construction has a melting point (according to U.S. and European standards) of 540 degrees C, or about 1004 degrees F.
Aircraft fuel burns at temperatures about 600 degrees C (and UPWARDS) depending on MANY variables including weather, the density of the fuel/air mixture, etc.
If one leaves a fireplace poker in a fire, it WILL affect the steel in the poker. Whether Tony is willing to admit it or not.
BTW, most fireplace pokers are pure iron, and therefore have a higher melting temperature…which is why they are made of pure iron.
If you’d like to try Tony’s experiment with a common garden shovel, which is made of steel (and is NOT pure iron), and leave it in the fire overnight, you will DEFINATELY weaken the shovel’s blade. It is likely to remove the “tempering” of the steel.
That being said, Tony’s support of the idiocy of the left wing whackos is apparent, and his attempt to reparse their words shows his.
September 9th, 2008 - 07:07
i like what you both said, but answer this? (and please excuse my spelling,) the building fell at free fall rate, it took about 10 seconds to fall, about 100 floors. the building was built as a grid mesh, for the buildig to fall that quick and that perfectly, all the joints at each floor would have had to popped at the same time, not the skelleton… the joints, thats thousands of joints per second, as a scaffolder i could not see how that could happen, if the steel tower collapsed at the top it would not collapse at the bottom, expecally not at free fall rate, if the fire was at the bottom of the building maybe i could understand, but then it still wouldent have fallin so perfectley, and i still dont know why we havent been showen a video of a plane going into the pentegon, im sure the worlds most protected building must of got clear footage of that,
September 23rd, 2008 - 19:23
Please get your facts staight it wasnt the heavy exterior steel columns which overheated and caused the collaspe of the WTC buildings. What really caused the failure of the bearing members was the heating and sagging of the interior steel floor trusses. That building was designed to carry the majority of it load on the exterior steel columns. However, in order to maintain this type of const each floor must serve as a diaphram in order to keep the exterior walls from buckling. When the planes crashed most of the foam fire protection was blown off the light weight steel floor trusses. The resulting fire cased the sag and failure of many of the required floor systems. As these floor systems failed the bearing exterior walls lost there ridgidity and became unstable to the point where the weight of the undamaged floors above was just too heavy for the weakend building diaphram. At the time this was a new type of building system which is very stong as long as as each system did its job. THe heavy exterior steel beams carried the weight and the diaphram in the light weight floor trusses on every floor made the building rigid. Alot of folks seem to think that the steel would need to become molten for it to fail, in this type of building system all it takes is the failure=sag or collapse of enough floors for a buiding of this size until it just cannot hold it own weight anymore. This type of failure can cause a pancake type of destruction where once the exterior walls give way and allow the colapse of the upper floors the weight of the these upper floors basically rip each floor away from the exterior steel columns and cause the building to implode on its self. Once it starts it cannot be stopped. This type of failure is also what occured at building 7.
October 30th, 2008 - 01:59
It seems to me that everyone here likes to think that they “Know” something about this. But the truth of the matter is you only have ideas. The truth is only known by the Govt who for some reason isn’t telling us everything. I personally find it moronic to believe that Al Queda had something to do with it. I do believe our govt is hiding something and if you believe in what the govt says, your a bigger fool than you appear to be. NEVER TRUST WHAT THE GOVT TELLS YOU..NEVER.
October 31st, 2008 - 10:50
i have read all of your comments and see the side of all of them, though it can be argued that the way the jet fuel burned the steel columns could have melted, but all of them?
you may believe otherwise but if you think about it something is fishy. If you look at some pictures of the world trade center just before it was hit you can see plumes of smoke comming from the windows. how is that possible when the plane hadnt even been hit yet? also the 15 highjackers that where anounced 7 of them are alive! how is it possible that they flew into the building and are still alive? also one specifically calles hani hanure(forgive my spelling) failed all of his flight schools all of them he didnt even know how to even start the plane also how did they know his name? they reportably found a passport on the ground outside of the trade center. how could it have not been insinerated?
also the pentagon…. the flight pattern of the sesna (spelt wrong?) was only possiable for a military plane to fly. The sesna was to big and clumsy to turn like that… also no remnants of any plane were found… not even the titaniam engines… they said that they melted… maybe they did… but how if they melted is it possible for bodies to be found with recognizable finger prints? wouldnt they be insinerated also with the engines?
the FBI confinscated all of the surrounding hotels footage of the crash anf hour after it supposably happend why would they do that>
Im not rying to dicount anyones theories, I just am telling the world what I have discovered in my reasearch… please comment on mine… i really just want to know the truth…
October 31st, 2008 - 11:03
The things you believe as “facts” are not facts. So if you really want to know the truth, maybe you should ask intelligent questions. First. K?
If you look at some pictures of the world trade center just before it was hit you can see plumes of smoke comming from the windows.
Nope. Not true.
also the 15 highjackers that where anounced 7 of them are alive!
Nope. Produce pictures.
also one specifically calles hani hanure(forgive my spelling) failed all of his flight schools all of them he didnt even know how to even start the plane also how did they know his name?
Nope. His name was on the passenger manifest.
they reportably found a passport on the ground outside of the trade center. how could it have not been insinerated?
Maybe you should read up on momentum. They also found the bound hands of stewardesses on the road too.
the flight pattern of the sesna (spelt wrong?) was only possiable for a military plane to fly
It wasn’t a cessna. And apparently, by your own words, a cessna could have also maneuvered like that, not only a military plane. eh?
not even the titaniam engines… they said that they melted… maybe they did
Engine parts were found.
the FBI confinscated all of the surrounding hotels footage of the crash anf hour after it supposably happend why would they do that>
normal in an investigation. footage has since been released.
Your desire to “know the truth” is highly suspect.
November 6th, 2008 - 11:27
look I dont want to fight I just want to know what happened loren or whatever you name is… Im just telling you what I have researched. I dont understand how you can just discredit everything everyone says like you know everything… honey look everyone has their own opinions so why must you be so hostle?
look first of all go to the time magazine website and look at the info on the 15 highjackers it is true… second of cool down I just wrote what I found out so chill
November 6th, 2008 - 11:41
You didn’t research anything. Don’t make it sound like you did. Or you’d find out that, in fact, all the hijackers are dead – because, you know, they are.
March 27th, 2009 - 19:39
Um… I have reshaped steel using a “campfire-sized” fire in my back yard. I invite any skeptics to perform this experiment to confirm that steel, indeed, will weaken and given enough time would melt. I don’t know if there was a conspiracy or not, but I know this “steel won’t melt” aspect of it should just be let go. It makes its adherants seem… spoon-fed. Hard to take someone serious when they are so wrong about something so simple.
July 19th, 2009 - 19:10
I know this is all just accusations against accusations, but Sam, a “campfire-sized” fire will not melt steel, this is either an extremely naive and “optimistic” opinion or it just a straight out lie.
I don’t want to offend you, but reshaping steel and melting it is COMPLETELY different, do not assume that you just need to wait a little longer to see it happen.
September 15th, 2010 - 21:00
Deep breaths gang. Take a deep breath. I know this article is old and the comments are really old but I would like to say a couple things for the truthers to bash me with and ridcule me.
I guess I don’t know if there actually was “Melted” steel at the site and I know the jet fuel “couldn’t possible melt it”. But like what a few other people have posted the extreme heat from the jet fuel, all the crap in the building burning (desks, papers, carpet, cubicle, etc), and the concrete shell insulating the building WILL greatly weaken the steel.
Like Frank H said with that amount of heat it may have removed the tempering. I think to re-temper the steel you need to dip it in cold water (I could be way off here but i’m to tired to look all this stuff up).
If it was a “controlled demolition” please explain to me how this was pulled off? Did secret agents pack the walls full of explosives while posing as janitorial staff working late nights? That makes me laugh.
If you noticed the planes hit several floors below the top of the building. I believe the the floors were only able to support several hundred pounds per square inch. When the weakened metal finally gave you now have several floors pounding on a single floor with several thousand pounds per square inch, which then buckles the floor underneath and so on and so fourth.
And for those that think our government pulled it off, do us a favor and move to a different country and see how much better it is there.
Is there corruption in our gov.? Yes. I find it insulting that people think our government would willingly kill a few thousand people to start a war. Even if it was true wouldn’t it involve hundreds if not thousands of people? How would you be able to keep all of them quite?
September 29th, 2010 - 20:18
Steel is made using the intense heat from a FORGE or a FURNACE not ordinary ‘fire.’ Blacksmiths are not using the fire in a campfire to make swords or anything else. Foolish article. Just Foolish.
November 5th, 2010 - 23:03
Okay.. So.. I’m a just a high school girl doing research. I’m in physics. And by all means correct me.
It is physically impossible for a building to fall free fall with the structure that the towers had. The towers had an exterior grid structure as well as an interior structure. Meaning there was a structure built around another structure. It is said that the planes’ jet fuel caused the steel to melt. Okay. I do not doubt the fact that the steel was weakened. But melted? Come on guys. Seriously think. I would understand if the towers had the basic skyscraper structure… Sorry that it escapes me.. But they didn’t. The towers were built with a top of the line structure, built to withstand such impact. I don’t know the whole thing about the hijackers being alive and all that stuff…. I don’t care. But I do know that it’s fishy… Mannny many many of the people interviewed about the towers that were on site heard the ‘explosion’ just before the first tower fell. I watched a video where the first explosion was clearly heard. They were within a few blocks from the tower before it collapsed. There were numerous explosions. Though I, only a 2nd grader at the time, heard no explosions- of course, there were plenty of firemen interviewed that heard the explosions. Why the explosions never made front page the day after? Who knows. But the day of, there was countless counts heard of them. News reporters, even recorded, reported saying, “It looks as this were a demolition with the interior exploded so the buildings would fall straight down.” It was something of that kind. Think. How is that physically possible? The buildings fell STRAIGHT down. ALL THREE!!! Those ‘collapses’ don’t look like normal collapses. A normal collapse would fall mostly towards the side it was weakened by. But they didn’t. They all fell straight down. And you mean to tell me that a couple of random fires in building 7 caused the entire building to collapse? You are all older and smart guys that know that a couple of random fires does not make an ENTIRE building fall in free fall. Look it up. There are numerous buildings that has withstood fires on numerous floors for numerous hooooours and mind you, they did not collapse. So to say that the structure of the towers were simply not strong enough is completely ignorant. Because the buildings that have withstood fires and did not collapse definitely didn’t have the fine structures of the twin towers. This was a demolition. It is proven that this was a demolition. Concrete and metal floor plates don’t completely disintegrate. There is an interview of fireman who cleaned up on the site saying, “There were no desks, no desk chairs, no computers, no phones, no nothing found on the site.” You mean to tell me that a simple collapse caused all of this to disintegrate? Along with the bodies? Bodies that were found in 200 pieces? A collapsed building causes someone to break up into 200 pieces? And is this why more than 1,100 people were not accounted for because some of the remains were simply too small to collect DNA from? And is this why very very very small bone fragments, the size of a couple millimeters, were found on top of buildings away? A simple building collapse caused this? For the guy who said how did the the explosives get planted. Well I don’t feel like going back into my research b/c I have already said so much, but there was a remodeling of the elevators 9 months prior to 9/11. And if we are going to say that this was a controlled demolition, this was obviously planned. And 9 months give plenty of time to place whatever was needed to be placed inside closest to the interior structure as possible. It was said that guards stood with guns outside the areas of which ‘they were working on the elevators’. In building 7 it looked as if lava was being poured out one section of a fire. It was said that pieces of the planes had flew into building 7. That the debris flew into building 7. And that would explain the molten that flowed from the building. The plane was made out of aluminum. Aluminum doesn’t burn orange like lava. It simply burns silver. Of course. Many things are unaccounted for. To say that one of the most secure buildings in the world allowed Al-Qaeda into it to place explosions is also ignorant. To say that our own government did so… Hey.. You tell me.. Until it’s 100% completely proven, we’ll never know. I just feel completely horrible for the people that were in the buildings… That’s what nobody is too worried about. I’m horrified of the thought that our own government could have had something to do with it. It’s completely horrifying to know that I am never safe. To know that simply with this post, they can track were I live from my ip address….. I don’t even care anymore about the structures of the buildings. How they fell… I don’t care anymore. I just feel completely remorseful, even though I had nothing to do with the situation, for all the lives that were lost….. Family members. Friends. Children. I couldn’t imagine if I was one of the little kids who’s mother or father, or both, died in the twin towers. I couldn’t imagine what it is like growing up without one of my parents. I remember watching when I was younger as they were showing people jumping out of the building… My God. Though I haven’t hit 18 yet, this situation has effected me as if I was an adult, or had lost one of my own… If the government did have something to do with it, there is simply nothing we can do about it. Those who think they can go to someone about it, don’t even keep your hopes up… The power among some of the people in this government and connecting them abroad is too strong for the people of this country. I truly wonder where this world is going to be when I’m old. I worry.
September 17th, 2011 - 12:50
Silly humans…
Everyone overlooks the real forces, the simple beauty of ignorance. Just as some here have said others know nothing, the government knows everything, this and that are impossible… well, ever hear of a perfect storm? What about a black swan?
These are things, THAT HAPPEN, that we do not understand how in the world it would be possible, at least before they happen. Once they happen, a bunch of people say “of course” and a bunch say “it’s a conspiracy!”. It’s neither…
There is such a thing as resonance, that could destroy the largest building alone… Planes were flown in to these things… how can anyone think that it’s impossible for them to fall? Imagine the forces… not predictable… not logical… definitely not understood… Waves of energy, massive… Not just from the plane, from the fire trucks, from the evacuation, from the panic, from windows bursting… all chaotic forces…
You get enough chaotic forces together and wham… perfect storm. One thing leads to another and failures combine in exciting new ways to make a catastrophe, as unlikely as it may have seen moments before…
Weakened steel… 600* is plenty to weaken structural steel. The height of these buildings and the strong outer grid would transmit the reverberations of any failure through out the structure… possibly causing another small failure… Who knows, maybe all of the office stuff burns at a high enough temperature to do more damage than the fuel…
Thing is, we don’t know… but that is because we are human and it’s more important to us to be RIGHT than to truly KNOW…